James Smith

Eric Girouard  0:00  

This is Bucket Talk, a weekly podcast where people who work in the trades and construction that aren't just trying to survive but have the ambition and desire to thrive. The opportunity to trade and construction is absolutely ridiculous right now. So if you're hungry, it's time to eat. We discuss what it takes to rise from the bottom to the top with people who are well on their way and roll up their sleeves every single day.

Jeremy Perkins  0:29  

Jeremy and Eric here with bucket talk powered by BRUNT. This week, we have James Smith, also known as Lion Dad. He deals with wolves and lions. And before we get into it, Eric, what's been going on?

Eric Girouard  0:40  

All right, so we're just coming off a bender four weeks in a row of NASCAR. We did a swing, you and I started down in Daytona. We had some of the team that went out to California Fontana racetrack Las Vegas Speedway and then finished up you and I in Phoenix. It's been one heck of a ride.

Jeremy Perkins  0:57  

Yeah, we wrapped the brunt car number 91 It's been crazy. got people in the pits sitting on top of toolboxes. We watched the rack go right through the pittstown in Daytona which was insane to watch from our vantage point. You know, all in all, we got some people that have been with us since the beginning to come down enjoy hanging out with us share some drinks had a good time.

Eric Girouard  1:19  

That's that's the best part getting new invite people that either support us, mostly really a bucket talk early on, and also a brunch. And as much as we get to enjoy it. It's more exciting to see how much these people enjoy it and make a lot of friendships and meet people in person. Yep, yep. Let's get in.

Jeremy Perkins  1:37  

Today, we're here with James Smith. He goes by the name lion dad on social media. Welcome, James. How's it going? 

James Smith  1:45  

Good, good,

Jeremy Perkins  1:46  

good. I'm actually really excited for this. It's a little bit different from what we normally do. But I'm super excited with, you know, we got people that follow us that are farmers and work with animals, and you work with wolves and lions, and I want to hear more. So how'd you get your start?

James Smith  2:06  

So I've been doing it for 17-18 years with animals in general. First, the animals I ever started working with was I was volunteering at Humane Society and vet clinics just be around the animals. First paid job. I was a stall hand and I cleaned between 12 and 16 horse stalls every other day. Yeah, that's where I got started with the animals was just being around horses. Because even with me working with the big exotic horses will always be one of my favorites. Right after high school. I was out in Branson, staying out there for a couple of weeks ended up finding a small zoo. Figured why not? I'll fill out an application. We'll see where it goes. And the owner the next day, I turned the application and paid went through the facility again, was stopped on the way out and he's all: Well, you don't have a whole lot of experience I got no I've worked with house dogs and cats and a little bit with horses I go, but I'm a quick learner. He goes well, the one thing I can give you a we've never had someone go through the facility twice in two days, and fill out an application. He goes most people come in, they fill out the application because they want to work with animals. And that was 16 years ago.

Eric Girouard  3:29  

And what was he getting at? Was he getting that that it's so much harder, so much different than what people expected. They just leave or?

James Smith  3:35  

Oh, it is what? Well, and the other problem is people that come in with never going through a facility or never seeing the animals and taking the time. And they just want the whole bragging rights of they think they're gonna get a job and the next day start working with lions and wolves and all that. And it's not that I put in probably close to 1000 volunteer hours before I actually for sure had the job. Yep, yep. It's not a job you do for the money. It's a job you do because you're passionate about it. I jokingly tell everybody, you'll make more money per hour flipping burgers at McDonald's, especially nowadays than you will working with animals.

Jeremy Perkins  4:24  

It's 100% True. So little known fact about me is that I own an equestrian property up in Maine, same deal. You know, the people that come in and help us do stalls or chores or whatever. Yeah, they can make twice or three times the amount of money but they do it for the love of the animal and the care of the animal. Yeah, it's definitely a labor of love, if you will.

James Smith  4:45  

Absolutely.

Jeremy Perkins  4:47  

So, take us through a day in the life what do you do? So start, you punch in. What are you going after you clean and pans or are you feeding the animals? How's it gonna go?

James Smith  5:00  

I get started about 738 o'clock in the morning, at my house, I've got my dogs and then I've got a fish tank. So I started off taking care of animals before I even get to work. But start work around nine 930. Of course, you do the walkthrough for checking to make sure all the animals are good, and there's nothing wrong with anything. And then we start with the morning feedings, changing the waters, scooping poop, getting the facility ready for the general public. We open the doors at 10am. And then it's literally walking through checking the animals, talking to customers, making sure customers are being respectful of the animals and the environment. And we do that until about five and then I come home around 536 o'clock, and six days a week.

Jeremy Perkins  5:58  

It's a grind. I mean, it's definitely, definitely hard work and rewarding. You're in with the wolves daily, right?

James Smith  6:05  

Oh, yeah. And the big guy that I do most of my videos and all my account stuff with. I've been with him since. Well, since the moment his mom pushed him out. I've been around him his entire life. They'll be nine years old next month.

Jeremy Perkins  6:20  

Wow. They're big. He's a big boy. So where did they come from? Well, I should say where did the mom come from?

James Smith  6:28  

So mom was actually born on our side. Also, from what I understand that grandparents originally came from a wolf facility, I believe in Illinois. But mom was born on site. And then the pups, she had a couple of litters. And for one reason or another, she just decided she didn't want to be a mom. So I ended up bottle raising these guys from three days old.

Jeremy Perkins  6:57  

It's insane. I heard with wolves and coyotes that they can be somewhat domesticated, but they cannot be domesticated completely. Is that true?

James Smith  7:06  

That's my opinion. I agree with it. Like you'll see the same tendencies, like the affection and yeah, the body posture and all that. But I tell everybody, at the end of the day, it's still 120 530 pound Wolf.

Jeremy Perkins  7:24  

You're comfortable working with them every day.

James Smith  7:27  

There's days where I give them their space. Like that's what I love, compared to like, going in with the big cats and working with them versus like working with the wolves. I feel the wolves are more. If you pay attention, they're more of an open book, then what the cats are. It's kind of the same thing as well. Your domestics, your domestic house, cats are more of a closed book than what your household dog is. And I think it's the same with the big guys. And there's days they'll let you know, hey, I want my space. Mom, like I said, it's 125 pound Wolf, he gets a space. I don't bother,

Jeremy Perkins  8:01  

I guess I can relate to it on a smaller level. I mean, my cats are more guarded. You know, we got a couple of Barn Cats and stuff like that. But you know, their dogs are in your face and with you all day long. How would you tell when they need their space, or it's just from years of experience,

James Smith  8:16  

his body posture changed, but nine times out of 10 his his uh, it's weird to put it this way. But he gets a cat mentality. If you took like the mentality of a cat and put it in 125 pound canine that's about how it is dealing with the wolf. He gets the attention and all that when he wants to be affectionate. But if he doesn't want attention or want nothing to do with you, he'll stay at the opposite side of the enclosure and he won't even come near you. Like he could walk right past the hood. No area won't even look your way. Once in a while he'll get if you're walking towards him, he'll curl his lip a little bit and show a little bit of canine it's like, okay, you need your space today. And I'll leave him alone.

Jeremy Perkins  8:59  

So our wolves, like coyotes and in the sense that so coyotes are pretty much they kind of stay away from people and things unless they're threatened to our wolves the same way. Are they more aggressive?

James Smith  9:12  

I think they're less aggressive than coyotes. Because I've known. I've known people that have seen like wolves out in the wild. And I've been told they keep their distance. I had the pleasure of talking to a guy who's probably been six or seven years, but he got to study wild wolves like in Yellowstone. And he said you could be 2530 flip from those animals and they're like, Okay, and he said, for the most part, they ignore you. And it also might be because they were kind of used to people being around, but I've also heard stories of a guy that I used to work with his dad was trapped on top of his tractor for five hours by eight coyotes, they wouldn't let him down. All

Jeremy Perkins  9:53  

right, we get packs that roam through here every now and again, but they usually just bask in the sunlight and then when you go out They just run away, and never

James Smith  10:02  

really had to. We had a lot of them out in Branson, Missouri, I lived right on the outskirts of Mark Twain National Forest, we came home one night lay. And we counted. There's 10 to 15 coyotes in that one pack, and they walked 3540 foot away from us, just like we weren't even there could care less.

Jeremy Perkins  10:27  

It's insane. So you started off, just like clean installs and everything? How was the transition to now working with big animals and being trusted to do so? How would somebody that was in your shoes that wants to work with animals that has that kind of mindset, that hard work ethic? How are they going to be able to approach that hiring person and say, hey, you know what, I want to do this and then get to where you're at?

James Smith  10:52  

It's a 95% no have 5% chance? Uh, yes. I tell everybody, even the people that come through the facility, or all the people that message me and comment, how do we get this job, it's one of those you've got to try, it's a hard job to get. But you're going to hear no a lot. But when you finally get that, yes, it makes all of it so worth it. And they've got to realize you're going to start small with mucking stalls and scooping poo and helping prep food. Like we've got employees that work for us that it took them a little bit to realize, but they're not going to get to work with the big cats in the wolves. They deal with more customer base. stuff, they deal with the making sure that customers are happy helping with the hands on helping with the encounters that we allow customers to enjoy when they come see our facility. It's not a guarantee that just because you get your foot in the door, you're going to get to work with big cat. And because of shows in the way, laws are getting ready to change is going to be calm, exceedingly more difficult to work with big cats than anything. Now working with wolves. I have a handful of friends that volunteer at facilities that have Wolf and Wolf dogs. And those are relatively easier jobs to get. But the hard one is going to be working with those big cats.

Jeremy Perkins  12:18  

No. Wow. That's interesting. Yeah, there's a couple of wolf facilities up near us. And, you know, 1%, all the way up to I don't know what the the max is, but probably 50 to 90%, I would say, right, yeah. And there's a few of them up here. But, you know, the only other place that we have up here is like the main Wildlife Preserve where they do have some animals and but mainly it's deer, and moose. So I guess it all depends on what part of the country you're into.

James Smith  12:52  

Oh, definitely, like you get out towards Florida. He's got a handful of places. Colorado has got a handful of wolf places. But as you get further over towards California, and that's where a lot of your rescue facilities for the wolves, and all that are same with Texas, Texas has got a handful of facilities. Also, it just depends on where you're at. It's one of those jobs, you've got to almost be willing to uproot your life and move to get that job you want.

Jeremy Perkins  13:21  

Yeah, yeah. So speaking of which, where do you picture your career going? I mean, is this it? Is there more? Do you want to open up your own facility? Where do you go from here?

James Smith  13:31  

It's a very common question. And I always stumble with that answer. Because it's well, in the day and age of social media, and being an influencer and all that, everyone goes, Oh, you can make so much money, you could be making enough money to run your own facility, which if I wanted to put the effort into it, I probably could. But I hate to sound weird saying it. But I'm content and I'm happy with where I'm at. If I continue to do this for the rest of my life, working underneath someone and just raising animals and spreading the positive side of these big cats in these wolves. I'd be completely fine with that. I'd be okay with it. I thought about the whole owning my own facility. I know what goes into it, just because I've been with the company for so long. I want nothing to do with that. That's a lot of stress and a lot of paperwork.

Jeremy Perkins  14:27  

No, I mean, it completely makes sense with you guys. There's probably a ton of grants and you know, government regulation that you got to deal with. I mean, we see a little bit of it, but not, you know, ours is more hobby driven. And but for you, I mean, I'm sure there's fundraising and a whole bunch of other stuff that you got to do to keep the facility going. It's not even just like a customer pays business. It's you know, there's more behind the scenes to this. Yeah, and maybe this is where you get your side hustle on baby you work and you come up with a small farm or or something along those lines and still work with the big cats at a facility. You know what I mean?

James Smith  15:08  

Yeah, definitely.

Jeremy Perkins  15:11  

Wow, this is awesome. I love watching your stuff. It's pretty cool seeing all the, the walls and everything. How many wolves do you guys care for?

James Smith  15:20  

We've got nine at this facility. And then we've got, I believe, five, five or six at our other facility that is still in Branson, Missouri.

Jeremy Perkins  15:32  

Oh, nice. So you bounce back and forth between two?

James Smith  15:36  

No, I normally stay out at the Stanton facility. I'll go out to the Branson facility every now and then. But not as often as I used to. Because all the wolves that I've raised or dealt with over the years, are all out here. The ones that they've got at the Branson facility, are newer pumps out are a little over a year and a half old now.

Jeremy Perkins  15:58  

Crazy. So what else do you got there? So when you talk about big cats, what's the breed or species of animal that you have there?

James Smith  16:06  

We've got two species of Tiger, we've got the two big lions, Lion and lioness. And then we've got two partial hybrids that were they came with our male lion. And so we've got six big cats. And then we've got a handful of small cats. Like we've got a baby Mountain Lion, we've got a couple servals. But other than that, it's mostly your smaller run of the mill zoo animals, like your goats, your llamas, the wolves, we've got dingoes that we put people in, we've got sharks, I've got reptiles and birds that I take care of. So a little bit of everything.

Jeremy Perkins  16:41  

That's insane. And what's crazy is to learn all this on the job, which is even more amazing. So like for somebody who's who's trying to get into this, you know, you don't have to have that big long, you know, resume, it's just hard work and determination to try to get yourself a spot.

James Smith  17:01  

Oh, absolutely. It's something you've got to be willing to put all the effort and energy into getting that job if this is job you want.

Jeremy Perkins  17:09  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all right, well, that portion of your life is amazing. But today is actually your day off. What do you normally do on your days off besides podcasts with us?

James Smith  17:21  

Hang out with my dogs and sleep.

Jeremy Perkins  17:27  

Nothing interesting. That's it.

James Smith  17:29  

I try to go hiking when I can. And I'll take the dogs out hiking, but it's a lot of catching up with house cleaning and giving my dogs the attention they don't get when I'm not at home or go and visiting family because where I'm at. I'm lucky to have most of my families within a 45 minutes to an hour drive of where I'm at.

Jeremy Perkins  17:51  

So and you have what German Shepherd says dogs

James Smith  17:54  

Yep, I've got two German Shepherds. They're both a little over two years old. They're a little monsters.

Jeremy Perkins  17:59  

Yeah. So comparison wise, how do your wolves behave versus your German Shepherds? Do you see a lot of similarities? Are they completely different because

James Smith  18:09  

you're dealing with the wolves. Now, if you get into like puppy wise when they're all being raised up, yeah, shepherds are 10 times easier to deal with in a wolf puppy. Wolf pole raiser. They're like a Belgian Malinois on crack. They're their little tiny sharks with sharp teeth that are about the size of ankle biters. And they just grab everything they can. Wow. But I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Jeremy Perkins  18:41  

I got myself a big farm dog here. I got a a year old. Great Pyrenees. What Anatolian Shepherd mix.

James Smith  18:48  

He's got one of those. She's almost two years old. Yeah. There's between me and my roommates.

Jeremy Perkins  18:58  

Yeah, so our guardian livestock dog has eaten chickens already. She hasn't really gotten anything. She's more eating it. She's eaten a buffalo chicken pizza. What else you've eaten? She's hysterical. But yeah, she thinks she's a laptop. She's, uh, you know, over 100 pounds and she's a year old and she thinks she's a cat.

James Smith  19:20  

We've got a couple other wolves that are like that. Even the big cat xello our female lioness. I haven't been in with the big cats for about a year and a half, maybe two years once they got around two years old, and are still in that kit mode. Whoa. Like I try explaining to people yeah, there's people out there. Like my buddy Shan door and all that. He works with big cats. He's on Tik Tok and I think Instagram as well. He works like with tools sized lions like he just lays around like lions and cheetahs and all that in South Africa. I feel more comfortable with the canines versus I do The Felines and the problem with our cats are their two year old kitten. So our two and a half three year old male lion is 300 pounds of kitten. And he runs any bounces and he plays like a small house cat would.

Eric Girouard  20:19  

That's hysterical.

James Smith  20:21  

Oh, it's hilarious to watch you just don't want to be on the receiving end?

Jeremy Perkins  20:25  

Yeah, yeah, they still a lion at the end of the day. 

James Smith  20:29  

No, absolutely. 

Jeremy Perkins  20:30  

This has been fun. Like I said, I've been wanting to interview you because it's just something different. Usually, we we got the carpenters and the electricians. But to be honest with you, the blue collar and the trades, they expand out further from, you know, I mean, caretaking of animals and what have you and you still need those same skill sets and, and, and work ethic and values to do what you do. And thank you for being on the show. I do want to take this time to give our audience anything where they can find you. You know, where you workout, whatever anything you want to plug at this time.

James Smith  21:06  

So both my social medias is Lion dad, underscore 1987 That's tick tock on Instagram. That's where I post the most time tried to venture out to YouTube. I get bored. But I am in Stanton, Missouri. And the name of the facility I work at is wild animal adventures.

Jeremy Perkins  21:25  

Awesome. Well, James, thank you this. This has been fun. We come out to Missouri. We got to come take a look at it. Right your place.

James Smith  21:34  

Absolutely. I'd love to have you guys out here.

Jeremy Perkins  21:40  

All right. Well, thanks for being on the show.