Dan Preston

Eric Girouard  0:00  This is Bucket Talk, a weekly podcast for people who work in the trades and construction that aren't just trying to survive, but have the ambition and desire to thrive. The opportunity in the trades and construction is absolutely ridiculous right now. So if you're hungry, it's time to eat. We discuss what it takes to rise from the bottom to the top with people who are well on their way and roll up their sleeves every single day.

Jeremy Perkins  0:28  All right, we're here with Daniel Preston of Preston hardscape designs. Welcome Daniel,

Daniel Preston  0:32  Hey. Thank you so much for having me. Jeremy, this is awesome opportunity.

Jeremy Perkins  0:36  No problem. It's been a long time. You've been with us for a while, and super pumped to get to know more about you, your story and you know how you came to be. So I'm stoked for this episode.

Daniel Preston  0:49  Yeah, no. Thank you so much. It's it's wild to be here. It's cool to be even affiliated with a brand like brunt. You know, I feel we both have been growing our social media followings and audiences during the same time periods, almost. Yeah, looking back and when I got started six years ago, and how long you guys have been just building your juggernaut over there, it's just crazy to see the rocket ship you guys are on. I'm not on as big a rocket ship, but I feel like a little bit similar one, and a lot of that has to do with social media, probably for

Jeremy Perkins  1:17  both of us, right? Yeah, social media is a powerful tool. I mean, definitely on the empowerment side. It's great to get our messages out. There are, you know, bring light to the trades construction, get to share with other other, you know, trades, or even people within your trade, what you're doing, how you're doing it, right? Definitely cool. Downside is, is now everybody's going to critique everything you do. So gotta be prepared for that. Feel

Daniel Preston  1:44  The haters are coming out of the woodwork more and more each day. It's like the new thing to do. I feel do,

Jeremy Perkins  1:49  and I think there should be like a qualification button. Are you actually in the industry? Because if you're in the industry like we'll give you a check mark saying, okay, maybe I value your opinion. No,

Daniel Preston  2:01  no. I always say to the guys, it's never going to be anybody at your level or above, right, right? That's the thing to look at there. So, yeah, no, it's been a wild ride for me. I think social media has a lot to do. Has had a lot to do with it. I've been on a hardscaper for 23 years. I've been on my own now for just six. Yeah, I worked for other company, other companies, you know, watching them fumble through social media, I guess I was just always a field guy for the most part, last part of my career, uh, working for someone. I was a designer, and that's kind of what kick started me into Preston hardscape design, yeah. And I just knew six years ago, social media had to be the thing. You had to be an Instagram. You had to be on Facebook. It's like what the marketing people were were talking about, but, but like, where it's taken my career and, like, what it's done for my small business in central Wisconsin has just been ridiculous. Just been so wild. I had no idea opportunities that would come in just by showcasing your work and telling people who you are.

Jeremy Perkins  2:57  Yeah, that's interesting because, and we'll get into this. But one of the questions that that comes up is, is like, How can a local business leverage Instagram or Tiktok for their business? And, you know, you see Facebook, and Facebook's kind of morphed into, almost like an Angie's List or something like that, you know, like Google listing, so that you know, it seems, it seems native to that platform to have your business on there, be in certain community groups and and like that totally makes sense. But like on the flip side, and we had a conversation a while back with another guest that, like, Instagram was more on the labor side and less on the customer side. So people see what you're doing. People want to get involved. So other hardscapers are reaching out to you and like, Hey, do you have an opportunity in the to work for you or whatever? So it's kind of interesting, like, how you're utilizing that. And I'd actually love to hear that. Let's just jump in with it. Now I have

Daniel Preston  4:00  a and that's crazy, because I have a story that, like, ties, that whole entire thing you said, just together. And this is how I always approach it. Like to me, when I first started out, Facebook was my local, my local connection, right? Like, yep, grandmas, grandpas, friends and family, you know, everyone from your from your high school. I live in my hometown, so yeah, lots of people from my hometown are on Facebook. So to me, Facebook was the first thing kind of local, like, get yourself out there. I always said Instagram was for the world. I always said Facebook is local. Instagram is for the world. That's how I felt. But you're exactly right, man, and I feel sometimes we go back and forth on, you know, who is your post for on Instagram? Is it? Is it for other contractors? Is it for homeowners, right? And I think, I think some posts can be the same, yeah, but it's like, for a lot, for a long time. And I think as contractors, it's just so fun to have other people following you and be, you know, picking each other's brain and all this stuff. So you get, you get sucked in, kind of too, like, but that doesn't mean that, that clients, potential clients, still aren't watching you, right? So it's like, I. I thought the same thing, like my Instagram is for my for my buddies in the trade. We're sharing no tips and tricks and showing the cool things we're doing and and then I got this. I got an Instagram direct message from and I live in central Wisconsin, a town of 17,000 people. This is year three in business. I thought Instagram was my contractor buddies. Little did I know that there's a prospective client in Knoxville, Tennessee who's checking out my work and comparing people in his local market. He reached out to me on instagram in a direct message in it, and literally, that changed the projection of my career, because I went down to Knox I went down to Knoxville, Tennessee, I did the biggest project in my life on this property. It was a three phase project. I spent my three winters down there because Wisconsin would get shut down. So I always tell people, you never know who's watching your Instagram, right? Yeah, that's the bottom line,

Jeremy Perkins  5:51  yeah, yeah. And I've even like just being in the space now for for Yeah, over a couple of years, it's interesting to see now the that other creators are cross collaborating, and so it's, it's funny, you might get somebody from New England who's who's really good with, like, cape and granite, or or what have you, and they're like, hey, a, I have a resource to get this material. Or B, I'd love to come, come out and visit you see, see what you do, but on the flip side, show you you know how to work with granted, a little bit more, or what have you. So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely, there's definitely a huge opportunity there with social media and contractors,

Daniel Preston  6:36  yeah, and just like you said, it's not only for getting your prospective clients. Like, I don't run a I don't run a large crew. And when I went down to Knoxville, the guys who helped me were guys off who were following me on Instagram. It's just It's crazy, like they were in my VM saying, I see you're in my hometown, and I come and visit your job site. I love this. I've been following your work. And I said, Yeah, you can and bring your tools too. And guys work with me down there. And then I went down for phase three, the helicopter pad. I source those same guys, and I just went back to Nashville for a project, and it's just cool now I can reach out to people in your your Instagram network. Yeah, that's like how I've been operating lately. It's really trying to build a big network, and then with my heartscape Mentor Program, we can get into that a little bit later. But that's kind of the next step here, where I'm getting back industry and trying to bring up all these young, new hardscapers.

Jeremy Perkins  7:26 That's awesome. That's awesome. So we skipped right over it, I would. But, you know, obviously we get into what we like. Give a little give a little background, pre, you know, business explosion versus social media. I'd love to see a where you started, why you started, and then what led you to that moment where, then it propelled your business into new, new avenues. Yeah, no.

Daniel Preston  7:52  Thank you so much. Yeah, so So, my story is pretty much. I dropped out of art school at age 20, right? My whole life, all through grade school, high school, I was a graphic artist. I was drawing logos for local businesses, drawing logos and two dimensional art was like my thing, all growing all growing up. So I found out college necessarily wasn't for me, and my first landscaping gig was when I was 20 years old. Basically thought I was punishing myself for not finishing college. I'm digging these holes doing whatever. But what inspired me was the top guy at the company I was working for had a family of five, and his wife didn't work. And I was like, well, maybe there is a little maybe there is some future in this trade, if that guy can make a living for himself. I feel like that's why I just kind of kept my head down with one thing. I was trained by that first company for eight years, and then so I never really had the confidence to go on my own. I just kept I was the number one foreman, everywhere I went. Then we moved across the state number one foreman. They made me a construction manager. And then what really turned the tables was when, when these companies, when this company could see I was the number one foreman. Then I was managing a few crews and I could add lib in the field because of maybe my artistic ability along with my building knowledge, right? So then, then they asked if I wanted to be a designer. I wanted to come basically to me that was like going on the inside. I've been an out. I've been outside for 12 or 13 years now. They're saying, Come on the inside. So that's kind of when it went full circle for me, I learned pricing, you know, and then like, what, and then how to design and sell. I help us design which meant sales, which inevitably meant I know the numbers now. So I was a residential designer for high end resident landscape firm. And kind of my, my main focus was high end residential design, and the main focus in this company was, was commercial maintenance, yep. And I feel, I feel that I we just kept butting heads a little bit because it's two opposite ends of the ends of the spectrum. So I was doing a little bit of freelance design work, and I knew I needed a way out, somehow, like. I would present the designs to people in their living room, sell the whole project, and when I went to hand that off, I feel like the football was always fumbled. A lot of that had to do with I had 15 years of experience. I was drawing what I knew it could be built. So it was just kind of like I was getting hung up, like handing off the design, playing the designer role, showing everybody how to build it. My name, and then I got to collect the check. So my name might might as well be on the side of the tree. The side of the truck, right? That's kind of how it came so. And I got a big, a big pool lead from, uh, an audio, video contractor friend of mine. He said, Hey, I know you do some freelance design work. You've been ironed out for five years. I'd like to give you this design of a friend of mine to just run on your own account. And it came out to be, you know, a six figure installation number at the end of it, and that's when I knew it was my time to go. So that's kind of how it all started. And just touching on Instagram and social media, I was so nervous. I started my business and and I knew I had to get on there, and I had this one big job, so I what I did was just, I took a whole bunch of pictures and video throughout the course of the first two months. Yeah, because I always heard when you start posting on Facebook and Instagram that you have to keep posting. I'm like that that intimidated be like, What am I going to post the next day? What am I going to post the next day? So I just built this huge queue or whatever, if you will, and then I just started getting that out there. So that one job, I just documented and shared the crap out like that's the whole first part of my Instagram page. Now scroll down is that particular project. And one thing just led to the next thing of the local home builder was looking through there, and they just seen all kinds of pictures of a massive project, even one hired for another big project showcasing that one big project year one has kind of just snowballed it all and then getting my videographer involved. That's really what it's taken, yeah, is getting a videographer out there, you know, following me around, showing the process, and then walking up. That's like when the guy reached out to me from Knoxville. He mentioned my YouTube videos, video content. Nothing is lost in translation anymore, and everyone's doing, yeah, so there's so much trust now when they see the contractor working every day, right, and doing good work every day, and bring it out there in front of one thing. So basically, from landscape labor all the way up to designer, you know, kind of got kicked out the door. I will be, if you will, because my focus wasn't the company, and then was really scary. But, you know, the rest is history, I guess. Man, for sure, here I am talking to brunt, yeah, so I

Jeremy Perkins  12:33  kind of want to get into it, because I feel like, I feel like, I don't know, there's a couple of trades out there that are, that are pretty attainable when it comes to just like, getting out there, learning and then kind of scaling from there, but then there's, like, obviously crossing that chasm. But like painters, you can start a business real, you know, just take on clients, and then all of a sudden you're now you have to structure and figure out a business and landscape is the same way, yeah, right, you get out there cutting lawns, and then you, then you're buying more equipment, and then all of a sudden. But that, that that jump to hardscape is kind of interesting, because, like, yeah, you can do, you know, techno block patios, and, you know, square designs and stuff like that. But how did you was it on, on, sorry, on the job training when it came to, like the design work, or did you actually have to go to school and and kind of learn how to use whatever software programs you do to design it kind of get in a little more of that? Yeah, for

Daniel Preston  13:34  sure. And I think one thing you mentioned there was, like, the jump between landscaping and hardscaping. And I think one of the big variables there is the design. I mean, you get, you know, landscapes, good landscape design, with plants and shrubs and and the lay everything else should have visual too, but I really feel it the hardscape stuff mean a visual presentation, which is the three dimensional design. Like I said, my background was drawing when I was a kid, and then I dropped out of art school. Then I was a that I was building stuff, so I was constantly looking at other people's designs. And my first desire I worked for. He had an accredited architecture, landscape architecture. He's the one who taught me how to draw curves and everything, just by always looking at his designs like I was. I built other people's designs for years, and I knew all things had to go together. So when they said, when they invited me on the inside, and I started to draw, I was drawing by hand, and then I would hand it off, hand it off to the lead designer, and he'd put it into the software I hadn't learned yet, but I still, I guess, I just had an artistic attribute, I guess. And it's like, as soon as I could, like, start to draw what I had been building me that then all came together. So then I was self taught on SketchUp is the software that I use over the winter months. It's just YouTubing tutorials, fumbling through designs, getting to the point where I could buy its presentation. So when I worked for that other firm, I spent my winters teaching myself three dimensions. I. So, like I said, it's like, you know, I didn't go on my own until, like, everyone gave me the tools along the way to go on my own. Right?

Jeremy Perkins  15:08  Awesome, awesome. Yeah, so that's, that's interesting. So, yeah, I've met, I've met a few folks that that actually went to college for Landscape Architecture, Landscape Design, and they kind of started off in that field, but then they have to, like, self teach a lot of the stuff, like building equipment and the building right, so that there's, it's almost like, potentially that would be useful later on in their career to go to school for landscape designer, landscape architecture. So, like, right out the gate, I don't think you could necessarily apply it, or you might pigeon hole yourself into just designing and not actually, like you had said, like you were designing, but why isn't your name on the truck that's doing the install and kind of breaking all that in, you know? So

Daniel Preston  15:58  yeah, because I was showing those, showing those guys how to install too. Yeah. And I, I think you to be a good designer, you have to have field experience. That's just my opinion. Yeah. And I looked at a lot of designs, either whether it was a commercial design or residential design, from another designer who didn't have a bunch of experience. And I know everyone, every artscaper Listen to listening this test, and it doesn't always work in the field, right? It doesn't always work in the field. So when you have the field experience, it gives you better insight, more insight on how to design.

Jeremy Perkins  16:30  So I'm going to get technical here. What is one of the hardest materials to work with, and that that is kind of like a challenge for you? I know that they've they've somewhat made it easier for the industry by having, like, preformed blocks, and, yeah, and people like it and, and, like, there's no, I shouldn't say that there's no artistic or, like, old masons and stuff like that. Used to be able to do a lot, and I, I see less and less of it nowadays. Yeah, What? What? What's, what's your hardest material, your challenge in the in the industry that you want to kind of conquer.

Daniel Preston  17:03  That's awesome, that you ask that, because natural stone is my favorite thing to work with. And I feel like, and I feel like it's, it's a challenge, which is why I like to work with it. So flagstone, like tight laid, you know, two inch to three inch like flagstone to make surfaces out of when I cut all that and piece it together, to me, that's super artistic. You know, you have to be creative to cope with note that that installation, in my opinion, and then natural, uh, bolder walls, so, and I think I'm, you know, I'm trying to, I put that out there on my on my Instagram, and I feel like that little bit how I separate myself compared to the other guys is, I am using precast products. I know I'm sponsored by unillock. I put in blocks and bricks, but then it's stones and rocks, right? I always say bricks, blocks, stones and rocks. Okay, that's what I put in. But I can get really creative when I throw a natural stone in with the precast. And I feel like that's that's how I've been making a name for myself, like just a smooth paver design, and then I throw an inlay of a rough texture of the flagstone. I'm always scribing around boulders. So I love the challenge of working with natural stone, because when I pull something off with it, and I look back at it there for life and with precast stuff, I feel like it's always going to break down, no matter the high quality of tackle, block or unillock, whatever, it will break down someday. Natural stone was here before us, and it'll be here after us, right? That's why I love working with it, but I feel it is a challenge, which is why a lot of guys don't have the patience to work. They really just grab a block and pop the next.

Jeremy Perkins  18:33  Yeah, it's interesting, because I'm from the New England area, so I mean from granite foundations to farmers walls. I mean, like, everything up here is, yeah, has, has lot lines that are just piles of of stone that they found in the field, and they just kind of outline the property. But, yeah, I mean, all the way up to Cape and granite, and the the quarry mines up here are redstone and brownstone, yeah, so that, you know, a lot of that architecture around here, the older architecture, is still that that stone, and it holds up over time. But I feel like, I mean, even from, like, drilling and feathering and splitting block and stuff like that, there's, like, there's a lot of skills. All those guys

Daniel Preston  19:17  I follow are from New England, right? They have to be a pile of rocks there, and they're making those linear walls with round rocks. Yeah, that I get off. I get off on that stuff. I'm kind of a natural stone nerd, so I love

Jeremy Perkins  19:30  and it's and it's wild, because it's like, you know, I did, I did a podcast with guys up in, up in Gloucester, and they, that's all they do, is deal with cape and granite, and it's like it's following lines in the stone. And like knowing, just with a piece of stone itself, knowing its limitations and where it can be, and then kind of mapping that out. And then also, I could, I could only imagine, like, if you were to buy a supply of it. Right? And then it gets delivered to your site. Like, how now you have to make all of it work. How much overage Do you have? I mean, it's got to be, it's got to be like a logistical nightmare...